I Suck at Clipper Card

Created Feb 9, 2011 · Modified Mar 1, 2012

Caltrain is converting the the Clipper Card electronic payment system. I’ve been a Caltrain monthly pass holder for about three years as I commute daily from San Francisco to Mountain View. I’ve been very happy with the existing monthly pass - it is a simple paper ticket that is mailed to me each month.

But of course, change is good, so that system is coming to an end this month. Now all monthly pass holders must electronically load their passes on their Clipper Card instead. That’s slightly more annoying than carrying a paper pass. For example, your pass doesn’t get loaded onto your card each month until you tag your card at a station. Another problem is that Caltrain uses a zone payment system, which means you have to tag on and off so Clipper knows how far you’ve traveled and can deduct the appropriate amount from your card (if you aren’t using a monthly pass).

This month I got my new Clipper card and my first electronic monthly pass. I knew that I had to tag my card at the station to download my pass on the first of the month. Note that Clipper cards can hold both monthly passes and electronic cash. As I tagged my card the first time, I saw a message about ’new pass downloaded’ and something about money being deducted. Hm, that’s weird - why is it taking cash off my card as well as loading the pass? Well who knows, let’s get to work.

I continued on to work, and the next couple of days everything went fine. The conductor would come by and scan my card and the scanner would report my monthly pass was valid.

At the end of the week I used my Clipper card to take my Saturday trip to the San Francisco Ferry Building farmers market. When I tagged on the Muni train, I noticed that I had only $3 in cash on my card. That was odd because I knew I had $15 on it the week before. I had only used my Caltrain monthly pass in the interim, so where did the cash go? Suddenly the Caltrain message about deducting money became interesting. Had Caltrain charged me for that first trip, even though I had a monthly pass?

I called Clipper customer service to see what was going on, and they confirmed that I had been charged for my first trip on Caltrain with the new monthly pass. It turns out that you must tag on and tag off the first trip of the month. When you tag on, you get your monthly pass and you start a cash ride. When you tag off, the cash fare is automatically refunded to you.

Since I hadn’t tagged off, Caltrain automatically charged me the max fare of $12.50, which explained where my cash went. The Clipper customer service rep was very friendly and said this confusion happened all the time. He also told me that the next time I rode Caltrain I should complete a ride tag on/off to ensure everything was right in the system. He submitted a refund request for me, but warned me that came from Caltrain so it would take a couple weeks. Well that’s annoying but ultimately ok I guess.

The next work day, I forgot to tag on when I started my trip. On my way home I decided to tag on at Mountain View and off at San Francisco, figuring a reverse trip would satisfy the system.

When I got to San Francisco that night I immediately walked home without tagging off, because of course I’ve been doing this every day for three years so my habits are completely ingrained.

Just about four hours later, I realized what I had done. I looked online, and the consensus was that you had four hours from first tag on to Caltrain to tag off, before the system expired out your trip and charged you full fare. I was at home with my two young boys so I had to quickly get them dressed and out the door to walk the ten minutes to the Caltrain station.

And of course, I didn’t make it in time. I arrived at the station after the four hour limit. When I tagged my card I saw INVALID FOR TRAVEL: BALANCE -$7.00. By forgetting to tag off a second time I’d taken my card negative and rendered it useless. Christ I felt like an idiot.

A little googling confirmed that you are required to keep at least $1.25 in cash on every Clipper card, even if you only use a monthly Caltrian pass. The reason for this appears to be that Clipper cards can carry a negative balance. The Caltrain website has this to say:

The current maximum one-way fare on Caltrain is $12.50. The Clipper system will allow a negative balance of up to -$11.25 for one ride before additional value must be added to the card. In order to ensure that you have enough value to pay the maximum fare, you are required to have an additional $1.25 on your card.

which sounds somewhat sensible, but where did the maximum negative limit of -$11.25 come from? Why not a nice round -$10? Well, one possibility is that this is tied to the other distance-based transit system using Clipper: BART. The maximum BART fare I could come up with was $10.55 for Fremont to SFO.

Note also that the Clipper card negative balance feature is a way to game the system. Basically you find the cheapest possible card, use it once, and throw it away when it goes negative. What that blog posting doesn’t say is that Caltrain requires the ability for Clipper cards to go negative. For normal cash rides, Caltrain doesn’t know how much to charge you until you tag off. Caltrain thus ‘reserves’ the max fare of $12.50 on your card, and refunds you the balance when you tag off. As I demonstrated above, if you don’t tag off you get the full charge. I don’t think there’s any way to implement that system unless the Clipper card can go negative. Ultimately the $1.25 minimum for Caltrain use serves as a buffer against the minimum price ride scam as well, although the basic question left unanswered is why can’t Clipper detect the monthly pass on your card instead of deducting cash every time?

So, how did my little story end? At first I was a bit worried, because there is no way to add value to Clipper cards at the Caltrain station. I faced the prospect of being unable to go to work the next day unless I bought a paper Caltrain day pass. Then I remembered I had a $20 Transit Check that a friend had given me a few months earlier. A Transit Check is a voucher you can use as cash for bay area transit services. Turns out you can use them at any Walgreens in San Francisco. The next day, I left for the station early enough to stop by the next door Walgreens first. I used the Transit Check to bring my card back up to a $13 positive balance, problem solved.

Note that I decided to leave well enough alone at that point, and I have yet to complete a tag on / tag off on a Caltrain ride using my Clipper card. At this point I’m afraid to screw it up, I’m going to wait for next month. Maybe I’ll tie a ribbon to my finger or something to to make myself tag off next time.

I am actually curious whether the assertion that I have to have $1.25 on my Clipper card is really true if I only ride on Caltrain. I would like to take my card negative again and then have a conductor scan it to see if it comes up as valid for travel. Also note that despite the instructions that you have to tag on and off the first ride of the month, in reality you only have to tag on to trigger your monthly pass download. Of course, if you don’t tag off you also get charged $12.50 like I did, so that’s a pretty stupid trick.

Now I have to call Clipper customer service yet again and explain why I need another refund. Christ I suck at Clipper.

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

Guess what? I tagged on today (March 3rd, 2011) to load my March monthly pass onto my clipper card. THEN I FORGOT AGAIN TO TAG OFF. Jesus H. Christ on a rubber crutch. My balance went negative again so once again I had to put extra cash on the card to cover it. I also get to call Clipper Card customer support AGAIN and a ask for another refund. I HATE THIS SYSTEM WITH MUCH PASSION.

ANOTHER UPDATE

I just thought of a possible way around this mess. The Caltrain Clipper FAQ says that if you tag twice at your starting station within 15 minutes, your ride is canceled and you don’t get charged.

I know that your monthly pass gets loaded on to your Clipper card the first time you tag on the first day of each month. I’ve already demonstrated with my incompetence that you don’t have to tag off to keep your monthly pass - that just keeps you from getting charged the maximum one-way fare.

So duh, what if you just double tag at your starting station the first day of the month? I’m pretty confident that will download your monthly pass and cancel out the ride charge. Thus, no need to tag off at your destination!

I’ll be testing this on April 1 and will report back.

UPDATE JANUARY 2012

I confirmed my suspicion: there is no reason to ever have to tag off if you have a monthly clipper card. Instead, tag on the first day of the month, which will deduct $8.75 from your account and add your monthly pass. Then wait until the screen display clears back to the default and tag again. The $8.75 you were charged by the first tag will be refunded. However, you monthly pass will remain.

I’ve used this method every month for the last year without problems. To repeat: if you have a monthly autoloaded Clipper pass, just double tag before you board the train on the first of the month. There’s no need to ever tag off as the only purpose of tagging off is to refund the temporary charge.

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Comments

Josh M

It's totally your fault! It's entirely reasonable that a service for which you have a pass to go from one end of to the other charges you a fare when you use it. Yes. I'm sorry to say it, but CalTrain needs to die, and leave a void for a non-AmTrak entity to fill. Like, say, BART, which manages to actually function most of the time.

John D.

I join a commuter card service program that issued me a VISA card. The Name of the service is Wageworks. Clipper dose not onner
the card service. I have acrd with $456.00 Dollars i can't USED since Caltran dose not have Monthly cards anymore. Any suggestion.

mikesonn

I'm confused as to why you are tagging on and off so often? Are you traveling out of your monthly pass zones?

Though I've also had trouble with remembering my month pass tag on/off at the start of the month. Not to mention even when I do it I'm still nervous because you never know what the conductor's reader will say.

Ane

This Happened to me also, I had monthly pass for the month of March , still 30th every thing was fine on the 30th morning , for my curiosity i just checked my balance by tagging the clipper card It says OK to travel balance $10 +$5 cash value. unfortunately i forgot to tag off when i reached destination and i forgot that itself , on the return trip the conductor doesn't showed up so no checking, but on 31th morning while on the travel conductor came and checked my card , I'm wondering in his machine it shows YES, Zone 2 Zone3 monthly pass and positive beep also, when i was in the office i remembered to charge my card for the month of April so i checked my balance online , It shows -$5.50 what the hell? , luckily conductor doesn't showed up for the return trip , I tagged once again at the station to verify the balance it says , INVALID for travel -$5.50. I can't figure it out how it came to negative $5.50 ? how clipper calculated that amount?, I went to walgreens and brought a new card instead of charging the negative.

Saket

Caltrain totally needs to die. God knows how much kickbacks were earned by who all for installing this ridiculous clipper system! I can't see a single benefit. It actually increases the work for conductors to check tickets versus paper tickets.

GRK

Clipper sucks and it is simply painful. Life is not easier with this system, only more confusing. And, settling any issue requires the torturous phone calls, where you must type in your serial number only to be asked to repeat it afterwards and verify who you are, listen to painful menu options, then wait on hold. All this just for riding the train. I had a problem with my card (no surprise, forgot to tag off) and called. The problem was fixed with 3 phone calls and lots of hold time. Paper tickets please return, but alas there is no chance of this.

Eventually we will all have radio chips implanted into us and load our money into our chips. Then every time we get on/off the train a signal will be sent somewhere documenting the event and payment will be deducted. We will probably not need conductors or any personnel on the train since it will be remote controlled. This is the dismal image of our future.

Paul

What was the April verdict?

phollenback

Thanks for the reminder Paul! I've updated my posting with my findings. You don't ever need to tag off if you have an autoloaded monthly pass on your clipper card. You just need to double tag before boarding the train.

KK

I've been using Caltrain for 6 years now, always with a monthly pass. As you, my problems started when they switched over to Clipper. It took me two months, replacement of a malfunctioning Clipper card and unmentionable number of calls to finally get the system to work for me. I thought I was finally good and can forget about this. Then there was a rate change last year and I was in hell again for a month had my card replaced yet again since nobody can figure out how to make my old one to work... And then I went on vacation in the beginning on the month (March 2012) and could not do the tag on/off in time (you need to do this by the 9th of the month or your monthly pass never gets loaded) and the problems have begun yet again. I just learned that the hard way that the 8-ride tickets don't work if you are unfortunate enough to cut your trip short - you must tag on/off in the zones for which you bought the passes for. If you don't do this, the system will use your cash balance, which will most likely bring you to negative on the card and you'll need to add cash before you can continue to use the rest of the passes you have left on the card. It took 4 phone calls during which I spoke to 7 people, two extra trips to the station (I was told I did not tag off correctly and I need to go back) to figure this out. I was told by the second to last person that I should've followed "the rules" and it was my fault my ticket did not work. I wonder why didn't the first 5 Clipper representatives know of this rule or at least did not tell me about it. I am really considering looking for another job which will not involve using Caltrain and Clipper...

Mudflapman

Wouldn't double tagging from your originating station only works if you are traveling just in 1 Zone?  I thought that if you tag on where you boarded on and then tag off to your destination, the Clipper card verifies that the monthly pass you bought is consistent with the Zones that was designated for the card.  So if you regularly travel from Zone 1 to Zone 2, then tagging on from Zone 1 and then tagging off to Zone 2 sets your Clipper card to those two Zones.  If you later on travel from Zone 2 to Zone 3 then the conductor will be able to know from their scanner that you have travelled beyond your Zone and will require you to upgrade. 

Mudflapman

Like I commented above, doesn't this only works if you are travelling within one Zone (i.e. Zone 1 to Zone 1)? How would the conductor know that you've travelled beyond the zones you purchased the monthly clipper card for?

On another note, a few times now I have missed boarding off my destination (Hillsdale - Zone 2) coming from San Francisco - Zone 1 (thanks to playing games in my Zune player..lol) and always end up in Menlo Park which is already Zone 3. So I have to turn around and board the train back to Hillsdale but I didn't tag on. At one time, the conductor scanned my card and it made that high pitched ding that it's A OK. Of course I was nervous that it might buzz but it didn't. So explain to me why the scanner didn't buzz my card as I was travelling from Zone 3 to Zone 2. Can't the conductor know that I've been travelling beyond my zones?

phrenologist

I travel between multiple zones and double tagging at any station works just fine.  I've even double tagged in a zone outside of my monthly pass zones.

The double tagging just loads the pass on your card.  It doesn't validate that you are actually traveling in the zones indicated on your monthly pass.

Note however that conductors do see this on their handheld scanners.  If you have a zone 4-3 monthly pass and the conductor reads your clipper card in zone 2, the reader displays the discrepancy.  It's up to the conductor to notice this however, and in my experience they only do about 50% of the time (particularly if they are very busy).

Thus you definitely still need to purchase proper paper zone upgrades if you are traveling beyond your monthly pass zones. You can definitely get caught for fare evasion if you aren't carrying a proper paper zone upgrade outside of your zones.

Schu

That last update is brilliant! I just got a monthly pass and was concerned about how I would remember to do this the first of every month.

Koray

I tried to double-tag to load my monthly pass yesterday, without success.  I forgot to tag on in the morning (zone 3), so I double-tagged at my destination (zone 2).  On my trip back, a conductor checked my pass and it came up bad.  I got a long spiel about tagging, but I got off without an expensive citation.

I've just checked the transaction history via the clipper website.  Last month, when I tagged on and off as recommended I got this transaction history:

06/01/2012 08:26 AM   Dual-tag entry transaction, maximum fare deducted (purse debit)   San Antonio          Translink E-Cash
06/01/2012 08:55 AM   Periodic auto-load at a TransLink Device Caltrain                 Hillsdale Caltrain   Adult 2 Zone Monthly
06/01/2012 08:55 AM   Dual-tag exit transaction, fare adjustment (purse rebate)         Hillsdale Caltrain   Adult 2 Zone Monthly

Yesterday's transaction history looks like this:
07/02/2012 08:52 AM   Dual-tag entry transaction, maximum fare deducted (purse debit)   Hillsdale Translink  E-Cash
07/02/2012 08:52 AM   Dual-tag exit transaction, fare adjustment (purse rebate)         Hillsdale Translink  E-Cash

Any ideas why this didn't work for me?

theguy126

The Clipper system is a massive failure of user interface design and a ton of people, myself included, had the same problem as you; it's not our fault. Relying on signs that users see EVERY DAY to "remind" us to tag off on VERY RARE DAYS is simply ridiculous.

Toknowjoyman

Hey i Just got a clipper card today, to save a few cents every ride. And guess what i did. Forgot to tag off! thats 7 dollars extra!
But anyways thanks for this doble tag tip, ill be getting a monthly pass soon and this will save a lot of headache

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